Philly Police Kill Knife-Wielding Attacker
By Wyatt Earp | July 3, 2009
Lunging at police officers with a knife. That’s smart.
A knife-wielding homeless man was shot and killed after lunging at two officers near Philadelphia City Hall Friday morning.
Officers were called after reports of a disturbance at a below ground concourse near City Hall at about 8:30 a.m.
Deputy Police Commissioner Kevin Bethel said a foot patrol officer was first to respond and was confronted by an suspect armed with a utility knife. The officer apparently recognized the 60-year-old suspect as a homeless man who frequents the area.
After a bike patrol officer arrived at the scene, authorities said the suspect lunged with the knife, forcing both officers to open fire.
The suspect was rushed to Hahnemann University Hospital where he was pronounced dead. No injuries to police were reported. (H/T – CBS3)
Every day, Philadelphia City Hall is chock full of police officers. There are dozens of foot and bicycle beats there, and it is also where we check in and out for court. Trying to attack an officer there is suicide.
Of course, the best part of this story is this: No injuries to police were reported.
Topics: The Job | 11 Comments »
July 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Another satisfied customer!
July 3rd, 2009 at 8:47 pm
I’m assuming you didn’t get my text message…?
July 4th, 2009 at 12:03 am
Crankipants – As Emeril is fond of saying, “BAM!”
Captain – I did – on my way to work. Wrote this before I got your message.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:28 am
I am always relieved when people pay attention to their training. In the US, we have an unbelievable number of cops who tackle people with knives… eek.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:19 am
The guy wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer…
July 4th, 2009 at 11:58 am
No MSM story can or will give the full story but it sounds like there was a time gap between the 2 cops arriving on the scene. In that time, the man did not attack the first cop. There is no indication that he was a current danger to the first cop or passers-by. Did it require both cops to shoot to kill when the man lunged after the second cop appeared?
I realise that anyone who has a go at a cop is asking for serious trouble and you can never be sure of the mental stability of someone who goes for 2 cops with a knife.
But according to the story, the man was known to the first cop, was 60 years old and homeless (i.e. not at the peak of physical fitness). An older man with a knife would seem to have a limited range of danger to 2 fit cops, presumably a decade or more younger, and presumably wearing kevlar jackets.
Is it not possible to use non-fatal force? Would it not be possible to use a tazer to incapacitate him? Or even nightsticks or to just talk him down?
There appears to be elements in this story that suggest that alternatives might have been available …
July 4th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Leo – When I was a rookie, I went after a guy with a nightstick . . . and got whacked across the back with it. First and last time I made that mistake.
Mrs. Crankipants – Ba-dump-bump!
Alan B – 1. Kevlar vests do not protect against puncture weapons (knives, boxcutters, etc).
2. Police officers in Philly are not issued tasers. They are only issued to supervisors.
3. The officers were talking to him, because he hadn’t been violent before. Then, he lunged at them with a box cutter. How much time do you think the officer had to make a decision? A second? Two??
4. We are not trained to shoot to incapacitate. We are trained to shoot to stop the threat. Ever try shooting someone in the arm or leg while he or she is moving. Not exactly easy, and we aren’t all Wyatt Earp.
5. Finally, and most importantly: We are not paid to get punched, stabbed, or otherwise injured – especially after losing 7 officers in the line of duty in two and a half years.
July 4th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
The officers maybe had a half second to mentally process the threat and to react. The rest of the Monday morning quarterbacks, including the cops who did the shooting, have the rest of their lives to agonize about what could have been done different. My vote is always with the guy on the pointy end of the spear. He’s the one who gets to die when everything goes in the pot.
There is no such thing as shooting to incapacitate with a service weapon. In addition to being nearly impossible to accomplish, the mortality rate is not enough less than that of a center of mass shot to make it worth the difference.
If you have the time to go out and get one, responding with a LLW weapon, like a beanbag shotgun, may be practical. But you have to have the weapon in hand and a backup shooter with a service weapon to make it practical. Personally, I always thought the beanbag shotgun should be fitted with a bayonet, so you can stick the guy if he comes after you. For some odd reason, no one takes that seriously.
If I am within twenty feet of you, me with a knife and you with a pistol trained on me, I will get the knife in every time, and I’m not even fast. More like half-fast.
That was a good shooting.
No one was hurt.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
That is the problem of a MSM story – it is not possible to understand all the BG.
1. Stab-proof vests are routine wear in the UK for Police and sometimes for Ambulance men. A boxcutter presumably is a utility knife like the UK Stanley knife? Those commonly carried in the UK would be used to cut or slash (without a stab vest) but would not routinely be used to kill. Kitchen knives (or illegal knives such as flick knives) are far more suited.
2. It seems to me that this and the remainder just about guarantees that anyone with a knife is going to be killed by the cops because you do not appear to be preparing for or accepting a non-fatal alternative.
In the UK I suspect this would not be considered to be a proportionate response.
I am not condemning the response you use but it would not be the norm in the UK and I suspect would lead to an investigation of the actions of the officer concerned and possible prosecution or disciplinary action.
(I am, of course, not a lawyer nor an expert in UK police tactics. Do not rely on my oppinion outside this context.)
July 5th, 2009 at 12:31 am
But the UK is rapidly turning into a terminal nanny state, where only the life of the criminal is worth anything.
AFAIK, if you pull a weapon on a cop, you should expect to be shot. Full stop. If you pull a weapon on me, you should expect to be shot.
It is very easy to avoid this fate. Do not attack people with weapons.
If you think a box cutter is no bif deal, let me come at you with one.
No one was harmed, so this was a good outcome.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:35 am
I’m a bit puzzled, even with a vest, I could kill someone with a box cutter fairly easily. Most people will protect their carotid well, but you will bleed out more quickly from a femoral strike.
Remeber, the winner of a knife fight goes to the hospital.