Remeber, the winner of a knife fight goes to the hospital.

In the UK I suspect this would not be considered to be a proportionate response.

But the UK is rapidly turning into a terminal nanny state, where only the life of the criminal is worth anything.

AFAIK, if you pull a weapon on a cop, you should expect to be shot. Full stop. If you pull a weapon on me, you should expect to be shot.

It is very easy to avoid this fate. Do not attack people with weapons.

If you think a box cutter is no bif deal, let me come at you with one.

No one was harmed, so this was a good outcome.

1. Stab-proof vests are routine wear in the UK for Police and sometimes for Ambulance men. A boxcutter presumably is a utility knife like the UK Stanley knife? Those commonly carried in the UK would be used to cut or slash (without a stab vest) but would not routinely be used to kill. Kitchen knives (or illegal knives such as flick knives) are far more suited.

2. It seems to me that this and the remainder just about guarantees that anyone with a knife is going to be killed by the cops because you do not appear to be preparing for or accepting a non-fatal alternative.

In the UK I suspect this would not be considered to be a proportionate response.

I am not condemning the response you use but it would not be the norm in the UK and I suspect would lead to an investigation of the actions of the officer concerned and possible prosecution or disciplinary action.

(I am, of course, not a lawyer nor an expert in UK police tactics. Do not rely on my oppinion outside this context.)

There is no such thing as shooting to incapacitate with a service weapon. In addition to being nearly impossible to accomplish, the mortality rate is not enough less than that of a center of mass shot to make it worth the difference.

If you have the time to go out and get one, responding with a LLW weapon, like a beanbag shotgun, may be practical. But you have to have the weapon in hand and a backup shooter with a service weapon to make it practical. Personally, I always thought the beanbag shotgun should be fitted with a bayonet, so you can stick the guy if he comes after you. For some odd reason, no one takes that seriously.

If I am within twenty feet of you, me with a knife and you with a pistol trained on me, I will get the knife in every time, and I’m not even fast. More like half-fast.

That was a good shooting.

No one was hurt.

Mrs. Crankipants – Ba-dump-bump!

Alan B – 1. Kevlar vests do not protect against puncture weapons (knives, boxcutters, etc).

2. Police officers in Philly are not issued tasers. They are only issued to supervisors.

3. The officers were talking to him, because he hadn’t been violent before. Then, he lunged at them with a box cutter. How much time do you think the officer had to make a decision? A second? Two??

4. We are not trained to shoot to incapacitate. We are trained to shoot to stop the threat. Ever try shooting someone in the arm or leg while he or she is moving. Not exactly easy, and we aren’t all Wyatt Earp.

5. Finally, and most importantly: We are not paid to get punched, stabbed, or otherwise injured – especially after losing 7 officers in the line of duty in two and a half years.

I realise that anyone who has a go at a cop is asking for serious trouble and you can never be sure of the mental stability of someone who goes for 2 cops with a knife.

But according to the story, the man was known to the first cop, was 60 years old and homeless (i.e. not at the peak of physical fitness). An older man with a knife would seem to have a limited range of danger to 2 fit cops, presumably a decade or more younger, and presumably wearing kevlar jackets.

Is it not possible to use non-fatal force? Would it not be possible to use a tazer to incapacitate him? Or even nightsticks or to just talk him down?

There appears to be elements in this story that suggest that alternatives might have been available …

Captain – I did – on my way to work. Wrote this before I got your message.